During his testimony before the HSCA, Col. Robert Jones, formerly of the 112 MI Group out of Fort Sam Houston was asked about his knowledge of and familiarity with a list of names - among them, Ed Coyle and James Powell.

Jones was asked, "How about George Wittemeyer?"

Jones answered, "I do not know the name."

How could that possibly be?

Jones didn't say, Wittemeyer worked for me, but I'm not personally acquainted with him - or in the case of SS Agent Winston Lawson, "I recall the name, I do not know him."

In Wittemeyer's case, he said, "I do not know the name."

Didn't Wittemeyer work for the 112th?

Steve Thomas

>Didn't Wittemeyer work for the 112th?
>

In his WC testimony, Curry identified "Colonel Wiedemeyer" (I've seen this guy's name spelled 4 or 5 ways) as "the East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve in the area." In which case Colonel W did not work for the 112th, as Army reserve units and the 112th would be separate organizations under the 4th Army (hq at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio). (The Army organizational info is in Larry Hancock's CD "Keys to the Conspiracy.")

Ron

Ron,

In
>which case Colonel W did not work for the 112th, as Army
>reserve units and the 112th would be separate organizations
>under the 4th Army

Thanks,

Steve

Guys, the proper spelling of the name of the military officer who rode in the motorcade is George L. Whitmeyer. The 1963-1964 City Directories list George as "Area Commander USA Reserve Training Center" George's wife Frances had a gift shop in the Trade Mart. Rumor had it that the FBI had used it as a command center on 11-22.(Mary Ferrell DB)

Take care,

Roy Bierma

> Guys, the proper spelling of the name of the military
>officer who rode in the motorcade is George L. Whitmeyer.

Thanks Roy.

Steve

Roy and all, I think I've posted this before but to make sure it gets into this thread (so many JFK urban myths just seem to go on forever...sigh). Larry Haapenan did some work on this and actually turned up the fact (with a telephone interview) that George was a close personal friend of the DPD Officer riding in the same car (I forget the name at this moment) and had asked him if he could get a ride into the motorcade. Apparently the fellow let him tag along and even introduced him out ad Love Field but after the assassination was embarassed about it since it did bend if not break the rules. Not something he wanted to talk much about at that time.

Between this and the 112th legend, a lot of attention has been diverted from the real issue of guys on the knoll with ID that were indeed bogus and part of the conspiracy (IMHO at least).

-- Larry

>Roy and all, I think I've posted this before but to make sure
>it gets into this thread (so many JFK urban myths just seem to
>go on forever...sigh).

Thanks Larry. I was researching another aspect of Robert Jones testimony when I ran across the reference to Whitmeyer. I had been under the imppression that he had been with the 112th and that was why I was startled.

Ron and Roy straightened me out.

If Whitmeyer was a personal friend of a DPD officer in the pilot car, it would had to have been Deputy Chief Lumpkin or Detectives Turner or Senkel.

I know that you know that I have "issues" with the pilot car and its occupants. The Dallas Police had a right to be embarrassed.



Steve Thomas

Steve, I'm virtually certain it was Lumpkin. I've written this
up somewhere but for the life of me don't recall where, been doing this way to long.

And yes, there were all sorts of security issues with the DPD that day - but at the risk of being repetitive, neither they or anyone else had faced the sort of practiced, covert, tactical team that they faced in Dallas. To most of them it was a parade, to the senior officers it was primarily a pain in the rear and a challenge to avoid letting the President get into the sort of situation that Stevenson had and make Dallas look bad to the nation.

....enough of that, Larry

>Steve, I'm virtually certain it was Lumpkin. I've written
>this
>up somewhere but for the life of me don't recall where, been
>doing this way to long.
>

Larry,

It's in note 16 of your "Mysteries of the 112th Intelligence Corp Group," where you refer to "the fact that Col. Whitmeyer was present due to his personal friendship with Chief Lumpkin, that he had ridden down in the pilot car from DPD headquarters and that he was later given an 'official' role in the lead car by the DPD in order to explain his presence - after the fact. (personal correspondence with Dallas researcher Michael Parks)."

Ron

There is a tool that might help you.

Go to http://www.namebase.org/main4/William-R-Greer.html

Click on Withmeyer and you will see a diagram. The line going from Whitmeyer goes to Lumpkin. From what I understand that means that some book mentions something about Whitmeyer that has something to do with Lumpkin as well. You have to pay to find out what book exactly.

I could see the diagram only once. When I went back to it, it asked me for a password. I guess the website gave me just one try so I could see what the website is about. But if you reboot your computer you can go back to view the diagram.

You should look at Crossfire, page 9 and Deep Politics, page 273 for reference about Lumpkin and Withmeyer. I went to yahoo.com and put keywords lumpkin whitmeyer namebase.

LUMPKIN GEORGE L
Groden,R. Livingstone,H. High Treason. 1990 (151)
Marrs,J. Crossfire. 1990 (9)
Scott,P.D. Deep Politics. 1993 (273-4)
Scott,P.D... The Assassinations: Dallas and Beyond. 1976 (444)

WHITMEYER GEORGE
Duffy,J. Ricci,V. The Assassination of John F. Kennedy. 1992 (505)
Groden,R. Livingstone,H. High Treason. 1990 (185)
Marrs,J. Crossfire. 1990 (9)
Scott,P.D. Deep Politics. 1993 (273)

I think Don Roberdeau knows the answer to all your questions.

Someone on alt.assassination.jfk wrote:

QUOTE

Additionally, riding in the pilot car, which, at the start of the attack had just passed through Dealey Plaza and was just beyond the TOP, was the Army's Lt. Colonel GEORGE WHITMEYER, a Commander of local Army Intelligence reserve unit who still taught army intelligence.

UNQUOTE

I’m wondering if it is correct to call Whitmeyer an Army Intelligence reserve officer, or simply an Army reserve officer. There seems to be confusion in the record about this man's position, perhaps due partly to confusing organization of the Army reserve. Also, would the “Army Intelligence” designation be more suggestive than would “Army” of a sinister role, if any, in the Dallas motorcade, given the presence of two or three other current or former Army Intelligence officers in the motorcade or plaza?

The earliest reference to Whitmeyer I’ve found is in the DPD report date 11/30/63 and known as Stevenson Exhibit 5053. It refers to Whitmeyer as “U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.” No mention of Army intelligence, though I guess he had command over any Army intelligence unit in that sub-section. Would there be such a unit?

In his WC testimony Chief Curry calls Whitmeyer “the East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve in the area.” Again he is not called an Army intelligence officer.

Roy Bierma in this thread cites the 1963-1964 City Directories listing Whitmeyer as “Area Commander USA Reserve Training Center.” Again this may include commanding any Army intelligence component, but there is nothing about Army intelligence in his title.

The earliest reference I’ve found to Whitmeyer as Army intelligence is in J. Gary Shaw’s Cover-Up (originally published 1976), in which Shaw calls him “the commander of the local intelligence reserve” (p. 194). But the source Shaw cites is the aforementioned DPD report, which makes no reference to Army intelligence. On what basis did Shaw add “Army Intelligence” to his source?

Groden and Livingstone in High Treason refer to Whitmeyer as “commander of the local Army Intelligence reserve” (p. 185). But their source is Shaw, and this description doesn’t sound much like the title given to Whitmeyer by DPD, Curry, and the City Directories.

Jim Marrs in Crossfire (p. 9) calls Whitmeyer “commander of the local Army Intelligence reserve unit.” The same description as Groden and Livingstone’s (citing Shaw) except for the additional word “unit.” Marrs cites no source.

Significantly, Peter Dale Scott in Deep Politics (p. 273-274) says that he had been “reliably informed” (he obviously chooses not to identify the source) that Deputy Chief Lumpkin, who drove the pilot car Whitmeyer was riding in, was “a member of the Army Intelligence Reserve.” Yet Scott refers to Whitmeyer as simply “a local army-reserve commander.” Why would Scott ignore any Army Intelligence role for Whitmeyer while making a point of Lumpkin being in the Army Intelligence Reserve?

So can Whitmeyer be properly called an Army Intelligence reserve officer, or is this sort of an urban legend started, apparently, by Shaw, and thus justifiably ignored by Scott?

As for the question of a sinister role in the motorcade, it is noteworthy that the DPD report says Whitmeyer sat “in the center of the rear seat” of the pilot car. (Lumpkin drove, a detective rode shotgun, and another detective and the enigmatic Jack Puterbaugh sat left and right in the back seat.) If Whitmeyer was supposed to look for something during the advance ride related to the plot (a shooter or shooters in position, some signal from someone on the ground?), it’s strange that he would take the worst seat in the car to do so. Also, he could hardly communicate by radio with anyone about what he might see or not see unless all the other men in the car were also playing sinister roles. (Which I wouldn't doubt.)

Ron,

Nice research, but the following really put a crimp into something I've looking into lately:

>Significantly, Peter Dale Scott in Deep Politics (p. 273-274)
>says that he had been “reliably informed” (he obviously
>chooses not to identify the source) that Deputy Chief Lumpkin,
>who drove the pilot car Whitmeyer was riding in, was “a member
>of the Army Intelligence Reserve.”

Lumpkin is a very enigmatic figure. If I'm reading it correctly, he went back and took over the search of TSBD, but all of the publicity has been given to Captain Fritz and Inspector Sawyer.
"Report of the Assistant Chief and Deputy Chiefs..."
DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10, page# 22.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm

Steve Thomas

Steve and Ron (Ron, sorry to direct you to this thread from
the Simkin forum since you obviously are a major part of it and
actually summarized all the different sources and confusion of the
intelligence part...I had not looked at all the names on the posts carefully when I responded to your PDS post).

Anyway, for Steve....in his book Currey gives due attention to Lumpkin stating that Inspector Sawymer took initial control of the TSBD activities, primarily securing the building and starting to gather witnesses - most likely because he was the senior officer on the ground there at first. (page 46) - when Deputy Chief Lumpkin arrived back at the scene from Parkland the building had been sealed and Lt. Kaminski was placed on the inner door and Lt Revill of the CI section preceeded with detectives to clear the building of employees.
Captain Fritz then led the search team up to the upper floors (p. 53).
Obviously that was written after the fact and things were probably not as neat in real life but given the various ranks involved it sounds pretty reasonable and as Deputy Chief one would expect Lumpkin to assume total authority but not necessarily lead floor to floor activties personally.

...anyway, those are the names Currey mentions, Larry