The subject of Dan Rather's whereabouts in Dallas at the time of the assassination has unfortunately been buried in a current unrelated thread titled "Woman on the Overpass." Where Rather really was on that day at that time in Dallas deserves its own thread in order to resolve the confusion that has lingered all these years.

In the "Woman on the Overpass" thread, Jerry Dealey said on 7/14/07:

"Dan Rather had the 'important job' of catching film being thrown from the Press Cars as they drove by. He was in the Dealey Annex, close to the Stemmons ramp. He could have been further west of Daniels, or behind any photographers. (Not many people photographing that direction.)"

First let me say that I appreciate Jerry Dealey's contributions to this forum. I've enjoyed reading his posts at all times. He has a unique perspective and has much to offer. Although I don't know Jerry personally, he comes across as someone I would like to know. He always signs off "respectfully," and that's how he conducts his business on this forum. I've never had reason to question anything he has posted. Until now.

To Jerry:

Your statement above claiming that Dan Rather was in the Dealey Annex at the time of the assassination is not correct. Before I go into this subject in any more detail, could you first tell us where the Dealey Annex explanation came from? Thanks.

To everyone else:

Please feel free to join in the discussion.

Ken

Ken,

From Pictures of the Pain:

"Just beyond the underpass, near the ramp leading to the freeway, Rather was standing holding a vibrant yellow grapefruit bag. Four months after the shooting, Rather was interviewed about his role. 'Our production crew in the motorcade was going to throw me several rolls of exposed film as they passed. I had a cab waiting to rush the film to KRLD about 3 minutes away for developing. It's a standard procedure we use to get film on the air faster. The presidential limousine sped past with several Secret Service cars close behind. Although I didn't see the President, I knew something was wrong, so I jumped into my cab and went straight to KRLD studio.'"

There's no cab in the Daniel film or in Mel MacIntire's photos taken near the Stemmons ramp. There's no one I see in Mel Mac's photo that looks like Rather or anyone who's holding a "grapefruit bag", at least that I can see. I seem to recall that Rather once said he ran back to the studio, saying nothing about a cab(I have no source for this other than memory).

RJS

Richard,

Thanks for the quote from Richard Trask's POTP.

I've spoken to Trask several times over the years, and during one of those conversations, he repeated the same story, i.e. Dan Rather was near the ramp leading to the Stemmons Freeway.

But Rather never, ever said that he was at that location. Rather's most recent version of where he was places him without question right next to the west side of the triple underpass.

I believe Jerry Dealey's source for Rather being in the Dealey Annex may have been Trask, but we'll have to wait and see. If anyone else knows who the Dealey Annex source might be, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Ken

"Rather's most recent version of where he was places him without question right next to the west side of the triple underpass."

Most recent version? So did Rather ever actually tell the cab story? And in the MacIntire photo, there's no one right next to the west side of the underpass.

Richard,

Those who were living at the time and old enough to remember will always remember where they were and what they were doing when they first heard the news that President Kennedy had been shot. As Harry Reasoner of CBS said that day:

"People will remember today as a day to date things in their lives... They will say, 'Where were you when you first heard the word of President Kennedy's assassination?'"

I remember where I was. Why can't Dan Rather.

To briefly answer your question, Richard: Yes, Rather did tell the cab story. He has told two completely different stories about where he was that day and what he did afterwards. The first was told in 1964 and the second in 1977.

It's time to take an in-depth look into this whole murky affair.

I'm still waiting to hear from Jerry Dealey on who his source was for Dan Rather's supposed Dealey Annex location when the shots were fired. I can't stress this enough. Dan Rather was not in the Dealey Annex or anywhere near Dealey Plaza that day at that time.

Ken

Ken
Your quote,
"To briefly answer your question, Richard: Yes, Rather did tell the cab story.
He has told two completely different stories about where he was that day and what he did afterwards. The first was told in 1964 and the second in 1977.

It's time to take an in-depth look into this whole murky affair."


Dan Rather is a mystery!! There are questions still
lingering as to where he was at the time of the shooting,
and how he returned to the KRLD studios. The following
expands upon your quote from above.

According to Monty Evans in his manuscript, "The Rather
Narrative," Rather has consistently claimed he was standing
by the on-ramp leading to the Stemmons Freeway which is located
on the west side of the triple underpass. (Evans, p. 40, as
cited in "The Camera Never Blinks(TCNB) by Dan Rather, p 113)
However, NO film footage or photos taken at that time show
him to be where he said he was. In fact, Rather shows himself
marked on a map of Dealey Plaza located much closer to the west side of the underpass than
to the Stemmons ramp.
("Scholastic Voice" January 26, 1978, Volume 62, No. 10, "I Covered the JFK Assassination & Nearly Blew It" by Dan Rather, p. 4)

How he returned to the KRLD studios is an adventure in
itself. Evans provides us with two scenarios Rather has
used over the years.

The first is told to
John Mayo
by Rather in March, 1964.
Mayo wrote a book, "Bulletin From Dallas-The President Is
Dead." In the book, Mayo relates that Rather told him the
following:

"I was stationed along the expressway leading to the Trade Mart.
Our production crew in the motorcade was going to throw me several
reels of exposed film as they passed. I HAD A CAB WAITING to rush
the film to the KRLD sutdios about three minutes away for developing.
It's a standard procedure we use to get the film on the air faster.
The presidential limousine sped past with several Secret Service
cars close behind. Although I didn't see the President, I knew
something was wrong, SO I JUMPED INTO MY CAB AND WENT
STRAIGHT TO THE KRLD STUDIOS." ( Evans, p. 41)

That was in March of 1964. However, Rather's story changes
by 1977. In his book, "The Camera Never Blinks," he tells
a different story as to how he returned to KRLD. Rather writes
the following:

"I had to hotfoot it back to the station.... I started off at
a full run....I topped the railroad grading a few yards away and
paused long enough to shade my eyes......the moment I cleared the
railroad tracks I saw a scene I will never forget. Some people
were lying on the grass, some screaming, some running, some pointing.
Policemen swarmed everywhere.....there was nothing but panic
wherever you looked. (I decided) to hustle back to the station.
I RAN EVERY STEP." (Evans, p. 42, as cited from TCNB p. pp 115, 116.)

As Evans writes, "Obviously, we have a major discrepency on
our hands. Did Dan Rather hack it or hike it to the KRLD studios?
He can't possibly have it both ways; either the 1964 story or the
1977 story is wrong." (Evans, p. 42)

Discrepencies galore. And Dan Rather has yet to answer for
them.
Bill C

>Ken
> Your quote,
>"To briefly answer your question, Richard: Yes, Rather did
>tell the cab story.
>He has told two completely different stories about where he
>was that day and what he did afterwards. The first was told in
>1964 and the second in 1977.
>
>It's time to take an in-depth look into this whole murky
>affair."
>
>
> Dan Rather is a mystery!! There are questions still
>lingering as to where he was at the time of the shooting,
>and how he returned to the KRLD studios. The following
>expands upon your quote from above.
>
> According to Monty Evans in his manuscript, "The Rather
>Narrative," Rather has consistently claimed he was standing
>by the on-ramp leading to the Stemmons Freeway which is
>located
>on the west side of the triple underpass. (Evans, p. 40,
>as
>cited in "The Camera Never Blinks(TCNB) by Dan Rather, p
>113)
>However, NO film footage or photos taken at that time show
>him to be where he said he was. In fact, Rather shows
>himself
>marked on a map of Dealey Plaza located much closer to the
>west side of the underpass than
>to the Stemmons ramp.
>("Scholastic Voice" January 26, 1978, Volume 62, No. 10, "I
>Covered the JFK Assassination & Nearly Blew It" by Dan Rather,
>p. 4)
>
> How he returned to the KRLD studios is an adventure in
>itself. Evans provides us with two scenarios Rather has
>used over the years.
>
> The first is told to
> John Mayo
>by Rather in March, 1964.
>Mayo wrote a book, "Bulletin From Dallas-The President Is
>Dead." In the book, Mayo relates that Rather told him the
>following:
>
> "I was stationed along the expressway leading to the Trade
>Mart.
>Our production crew in the motorcade was going to throw me
>several
>reels of exposed film as they passed. I HAD A CAB WAITING to
>rush
>the film to the KRLD sutdios about three minutes away for
>developing.
>It's a standard procedure we use to get the film on the air
>faster.
>The presidential limousine sped past with several Secret
>Service
>cars close behind. Although I didn't see the President, I
>knew
>something was wrong, SO I JUMPED INTO MY CAB AND WENT
>STRAIGHT TO THE KRLD STUDIOS." ( Evans, p. 41)
>
> That was in March of 1964. However, Rather's story
>changes
>by 1977. In his book, "The Camera Never Blinks," he tells
>a different story as to how he returned to KRLD. Rather
>writes
>the following:
>
> "I had to hotfoot it back to the station.... I started off
>at
>a full run....I topped the railroad grading a few yards away
>and
>paused long enough to shade my eyes......the moment I cleared
>the
>railroad tracks I saw a scene I will never forget. Some
>people
>were lying on the grass, some screaming, some running, some
>pointing.
>Policemen swarmed everywhere.....there was nothing but
>panic
>wherever you looked. (I decided) to hustle back to the
>station.
>I RAN EVERY STEP." (Evans, p. 42, as cited from TCNB p. pp
>115, 116.)
>
> As Evans writes, "Obviously, we have a major discrepency on
>
>our hands. Did Dan Rather hack it or hike it to the KRLD
>studios?
>He can't possibly have it both ways; either the 1964 story or
>the
>1977 story is wrong." (Evans, p. 42)
>
> Discrepencies galore. And Dan Rather has yet to answer for
>
>them.
>Bill C
>
>
Bill,

"the camera never blinks. Well I guess in Rathers case it did blink,
at least in his mind.

Bill,

From that part of your post referring to Monte Evans' "The Rather Narrative":

"In fact, Rather shows himself marked on a map of Dealey Plaza located much closer to the west side of the underpass than to the Stemmons ramp. ("Scholastic Voice" January 26, 1978, Volume 62, No. 10, "I Covered the JFK Assassination & Nearly Blew It" by Dan Rather, p. 4)."

I have a copy of this 1/26/78 "Scholastic Voice" article, although mine is entitled "Biggest Story of the Century." The article was written not by a "Scholastic Voice" reporter but by Dan Rather himself. It's an abridged version of Chapter 5 of "The Camera Never Blinks" and it includes a map that is not found in the book. The map shows Dealey Plaza as well as the entire west side of the triple underpass which is known as the Dealey Annex per Jerry Dealey. Monte Evans was too lenient in his book when he said that Rather was much closer to the west side of the underpass than to the Stemmons ramp.

The map included with this Dan Rather-written article actually shows Rather RIGHT NEXT to the underpass and nowhere near the Stemmons ramp. This corresponds to what Rather had said in the article and in his book: He had set himself up on the other side of the triple underpass, and after the motorcade had passed by: "I topped the railroad grading A FEW YARDS AWAY."

There's absolutely no doubt that back in 1977 Dan Rather was claiming to be standing adjacent to the west side of the triple underpass, a few yards away from it, at the time of the assassination.

But the photographic record would show otherwise.

Ken

Ken
Yes, the Scholastic Voice article you write of
above is the same I am referring to. The front cover
of SV shows the left side of Rather's face, and a
small photo of Clint Hill on the limo bumper. The
front cover reads, "I Covered The JFK Assassination...
& Nearly Blew It." Then in smaller letters under the
heading, it reads, "From the Bestseller by Video Journalist
Dan Rather." Is this the same SV you have in your
possession?

The map Rather included in Scholastic Voice does indeed
show him very close to the west side of the underpass. I
still don't see Dan Rather in any film or photos of that area.

What I can't understand is, let's say for the sake of
discussion that he was where he said he was at the time of
the assassination. It's obvious the truck with the film
did not drop off anything to him, and he said when he cleared
the railroad tracks he saw a scene he will never forget.
Then this crack reporter decides not to get information from
the throngs of people he sees, but rather, "hustle back" to
the station, according to his 1977 account. Why??? He
doesn't have the film that he was going to receive. Why didn't
he take out his paper and pen and find out what all the "panic"
was about? No!! He decides to bypass all of this potential
information in Dealey Plaza, and "hotfoot it" back to the
station.

Can anyone give a valid explanation why a reporter would
act in this way? The only explanation I can give is that he
wasn't in Dealey Plaza.
Bill C

>>What I can't understand is, let's say for the sake of discussion that he was where he said he was at the time of the assassination. It's obvious the truck with the film did not drop off anything to him, and he said when he cleared the railroad tracks he saw a scene he will never forget. Then this crack reporter decides not to get information from the throngs of people he sees, but rather, "hustle back" to the station, according to his 1977 account. Why??? He doesn't have the film that he was going to receive. Why didn't he take out his paper and pen and find out what all the "panic" was about? No!! He decides to bypass all of this potential information in Dealey Plaza, and "hotfoot it" back to the station.<<


Bill,

You make an excellent point about Dan Rather’s complete lack of journalistic instinct immediately following the assassination. . . if he truly was where he said he was (in his 1977 version).

First a recap. . .

We know (in his 1977 version) exactly where Rather said he was in Dallas at 12:30 p.m. on 11/22/63: “a few yards away” from the west side of the triple underpass per his book “The Camera Never Blinks.” There’s no rational argument against this. We have Rather’s own words in his book, the diagram in the 1978 “Scholastic Voice” magazine article written by Rather himself, and the 2002 Larry King interview (thanks to Jerry Dealey for the transcript) as proof.

We also know that Rather was clearly NOT at that location at that time. We have Jack Daniel’s film and Mel McIntire’s photo, both taken on the west side of the triple underpass showing the President’s limo after it emerged from the tunnel with no Dan Rather in sight a few yards away from the underpass or anywhere along Elm Street all the way up to the Stemmons Freeway entrance. He wasn’t where he said he was. How could he NOT remember where he was?

I’m reminded of what Eddie Barker had to say about Rather in his own book, “Eddie Barker’s Journal.” On page 46, Barker said, “I remember when he wrote his book, ‘The Camera Never Blinks,’ he called to tell me an autographed copy was on the way. But he added, ‘I should tell you, we don’t always remember things the same way.” A warning, in advance, that some things would not be as Barker remembered them. Would Rather’s location at the time of the assassination and what he did thereafter be among those “things”?

Now as to the logic of Rather being where he said he was (in his 1977 version). . .

Rather was CBS Southwest Bureau Chief on the day that Kennedy arrived in Dallas. His role was to supervise the overall coverage of that event. That’s an important, demanding job. I’m sure being out in the streets to pick up a reel of news film was not in his assignment for that day. Imagine the CBS network trying to get in touch with their Bureau Chief, only to find out that he wasn’t supervising anything or anybody but was instead waiting to catch some film because, as he said in his book, “Well, what the hell, I’m not doing anything.” He could easily have delegated it to someone else. It doesn’t make sense. No question about it, though, Rather was definitely NOT in the KRLD studio at the time of the assassination. But he was also NOT where he said he was (in his 1977 version), a few yards away from the west side of the triple underpass. So where was he then? And what was he doing?

Furthermore, arguing against the logic of him being at that location, the film drop would never have been set up for the west side of the triple underpass. Rather would have been temporarily hidden from view by the underpass as the limo headed down for the tunnel. He would probably have been missed or spotted too late with the motorcade normally picking up speed as it passed through the tunnel on it's way to the Stemmons Freeway and the Trade Mart. The most obvious place for Rather or anyone else to be waiting was on the east side of the underpass, in Dealey Plaza, at the foot of the grassy knoll, in clear view. The crowd was sparse. He would have stood out with that yellow grapefruit bag. Journalistically as well as logically, Rather shouldn’t have been where he said he was (in his 1977 version). And he wasn’t there. Again: Where was he then? And what was he doing?

Bill, now to your point. . .

Rather says that he climbed the underpass after the assassination and looked down on Dealey Plaza. What he saw made him think about a lesson he had learned at Sam Houston State: “No story is worth a damn unless you can get it out.” So he ran to KRLD, bypassing the story of a lifetime, failing to ask any of the spectators -- some of whom were lying in the grass, some screaming, some running, some pointing, policemen swarming everywhere -- what happened? In other words, he ran to KRLD to get out a story that he didn’t have, and then when he supposedly arrived there at that time and found out that no one else knew either, he claims to have called Eddie Barker, saying, “I think something happened out there. And I think it's bad."

Of course, if he had stopped to interview scores of witnesses, not only would he have known what happened, he may have won a Pulitzer Prize like photographer Bob Jackson and journalist Merriman Smith. No, this defies belief. But he wasn’t there. So one last time: Where was he then? And what was he doing?

Ken

Ken,

For what it is worth:

Rather could have been on the west side of the Underpass, but on the south side of Elm St. The McIntyre photo does show some people over there, but only a couple. If he DID have a taxi standing by, it would only be on Main or Commerce Streets, as Elm was vacated by the police. (Not sure where the CBS studios were in 1963.)

The Daniels film does not really show that side of the Dealey Annex, except as a possible blur while the limo is going by.

As far as Gary's question, remember that Dan Rather was in television, and not newspaper. He may not have even carried a notepad and pen. Without a camera, he probably high-tailed it back to the studio, to go on the air with whatever stories came in. This is the same reaction that other TV reporters (Jay Watson with ABC) did, even though they actually were in Dealey Plaza.

Rather is very inconsistent though, and apparently keeps changing his story. He would not be on the Triple Underpass to catch film!

Jerry
Thanks for your thoughtful explanations
concerning Rather's location. He provides a
map of Dealey Plaza in the "Scholastic Voice" article,
and marks his position with a black dot. The dot
is located next to the triple underpass on the west
side, and on the NORTH side of Elm. He himself puts
his position there. However, no films or photos show
him.

I can appreciate a television person not having
a pen and pad, but he can ask questions. What confuses
me is that, even without a pen, he could've asked any
number of people "what happened?" If he was in the midst
of panic and turmoil, one would think that,
even if he wasn't a media person, just out of curiosity
he would've asked someone what the reason was for the
total pandemonium in the plaza. However, no questions asked.

In my opinion, Jerry, Dan Rather was not in
Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting. Why he
fabricated this story is anybody's guess.
Thanks
Bill C

"Why he fabricated this story is anybody's guess."

Bill,

That story pushed Rather into the national limelight. He injected himself into the story, and his career skyrocketed. A few short years later, Rather became CBS chief White House correspondent. After his bold attacks on Nixon, he essentially forced out Walter Cronkite as top news anchor at CBS. Not long ago, you posted a story about ethics and integrity in journalism. Rather violated much of that on his way to the top.

RJS

Here is Rather's diagram/map of exactly where he was at the time of the assassination (according to his 1977 version).

Edited for correction:

Robin?

Edited for correction, and you removed the blow-up of the McIntyre photo? Did you determine that was not a man in a suit?

Hi Jerry.

Yes, i realised that what i was calling a "man in a suit" was in fact, a mans raised right arm.

Hence my correction edit.

All:
I spent a decade as a radio news director and did plenty of field work. I can tell you any journalist worth their salt, whether it be print or broadcast, has a reporters notebook with them AT ALL TIMES.

When I was working, a notebook was with me. I kept it in the car in case something happened when I was not at work. In other words, when you are a reporter, you are never off duty.

I remember two days after Christmas in 1987 when the house next door caught fire, killing three children. I can recall the details vividly, because not only did I have to report the story, I was involved in trying to save the children and the mother. The mother survived, the father escaped and was screaming for help.

Once the mother was saved, my first instinct was to conduct interviews and call the story to the station.

Rather's story is a fraud. My mother was two months pregnant with me on 11/22/63, and she knew EXACTLY where she was when she heard the news (aisle 2 of the A&P Supermakrket). Why doesn't Rather?

Richard,

"...I can tell you any journalist worth their salt, whether it be print or broadcast, has a reporters notebook with them AT ALL TIMES..."


I thought we were talking about Dan Rather? What made you think we were talking about a journalist "worth their salt"?

Sorry. I have disliked Dan Rather ever since he went on national TV to say that the children of Dallas were cheering Kennedy's being assassinated. Sensationalism and irresponsible, the story of Dan Rather's career. (Eddie Barker has some choice words about Rather's doing that as well.)

I do know Darwin Payne, and trust him more than I do Rather.

"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck..." Dan Rather

"If it looks like an idiot, .... Jerry Dealey

(Saw your Amazon review on Bugliosi. Mine is about 4 reviews below it.)

Bill,

"...either the 1964 story or the 1977 story is wrong. "- Evans

OR....

it's not too much of a leap of intellect OR POLICE-WORK to assume that when he's told conflicting stories, THEY'RE BOTH WRONG!!

And given the photographic evidence, they are both are wrong, so: "ta-DA!"

Dan's latest B.S. act with the forgery of the REAL documents on Bush's "service" was just his most recent mission in helping to engineer who's in the whitehouse.

Rather, Cronkite, Jennings and on and on. Thank heaven for investigative journalists.

:-(

Bob Druwing

Dan Rather’s story of coming over the tracks and running back to the station has other problems:

Why did he go to the trouble of running up the hill and over the tracks? Couldn’t he have just run back through the underpass?

If he ran over the tracks and through all this mayhem, why don’t we see him in any of the aftermath photos or films?

Who is the camera man that was supposed to toss him the film? Was it Tom Craven? If so, what’s his story? Did he see Dan or toss anything to him?

I have to agree with Ken. Rather was CBS Southwest Bureau Chief and they were covering the arrival of the president. Dan claims he’s out running errands as the president is about to speak at the Trade Mart! This does not sound like the actions of the young ambitious person who would later replace the great Cronkite. Dan is going to be in the middle of the action; either back at the station or at the Trade Mart.

He was probably at the Carousel Club having a martini for lunch and just can’t admit it.

Jeff Rollins

Jeff
Your following observations are interesting.
"Why did he go to the trouble of running up the hill and over the tracks? Couldn’t he have just run back through the underpass?"

One would think that a person standing where Rather said
he was standing would take the route through the underpass.
It's quite clear, Jeff. Even if his alleged cab was waiting
for him on the grassy knoll, he still could run through the
underpass to get in it. Oh, I forgot. He said he ran all the
way back to KRLD. No, wait a minute, he said he took a cab to
KRLD. No, he said he ran. He took a cab. I'm confused !!!



"Who is the camera man that was supposed to toss him the film? Was it Tom Craven? If so, what’s his story? Did he see Dan or toss anything to him?"

In the "Scholastic Voice" article of 1978, Rather wrote that he
topped the railroad grading a few yards away and looked for the
camera truck. It was nowhere in sight. He then writes that
instead of taking out his notebook to ask people in hysteria
what happened, he decided to go back to KRLD and, "ran every
step of the way." Wait, didn't he say he took a cab?




"I have to agree with Ken. Rather was CBS Southwest Bureau Chief and they were covering the arrival of the president. Dan claims he’s out running errands as the president is about to speak at the Trade Mart! This does not sound like the actions of the young ambitious person who would later replace the great Cronkite. Dan is going to be in the middle of the action; either back at the station or at the Trade Mart."

And I have to agree with you. If Dan Rather was where
he said he was in Dealey Plaza, and had a notebook available to
interview people who were in a panic, I would have to say, based on what
we know about his ambitions, that he would've gotten the story
immediately to give himself credit for breaking it. In contrast,
look at how quickly he wanted to put over the air that the President
was dead. He couldn't wait to get the scoop on that bulletin.
His alleged actions in Dealey Plaza (again, I don't believe he was
there) conflict with his instinctive urge to get the word out
immediately that Kennedy had died, even though an unknown male
"confirmed" it to him over the telephone. Rather couldn't have known that the
unknown voice he was talking to at Parkland was a doctor or not. However,
his ego was too big to wait for confirmation. This behavior
just doesn't coincide with what he said his actions were in
Dealey Plaza. Just my opinionm, Jeff.


"He was probably at the Carousel Club having a martini for lunch and just can’t admit it."

If he thought it was going to help his career sky rocket like it
did after November 22nd, you're probably correct.
Bill C

Bill and Jeff,

Did anyone ever as him if he partied with SS agents the night
before. Were they at the Carousel Club then as well?

Hi Gary
No, I never heard that Dan Rather was out
partying with SS agents the night before. However,
according to a report submitted by a Phil J. Record,
"a part time Police Reporter and part time City
Editor (night), 5533 Wheaton Dr., Fort Worth, Texas,"
he and reporters Barbara Richardson and BOB
SCHIEFFER (my emphasis) were present at the Press Club,
with who he said was a SS agent. He continues:

"At about 3 a.m. or shortly thereafter,"
his party got on the elevator and left. Mr. Record
said he and Schieffer went to a coffee shop on the second
floor, and the remainder of the group went on to the "Cellar."
(Report filed to USSS, December 2, 1963)

Mr. Record concludes that no SS agent was drunk,
disorderly, or in any way obnoxious at the Press Club or the
"Cellar." QUESTION: If Mr. Record did not go to the "Cellar"
like he reports, how can he conclude no agents acted out of
order there? HE WASN'T AT THE "CELLAR." This was CYA
time, and it seems many were willing to assist.

I never heard where Rather was on the night before
the assassination, but he writes in "Scholastic Voice" that
he flew to Ulvalde, Texas to film an interview with former
Vice President John Nance Garner, who turned ninety eight
years old on November 22nd. Rather flew to the Garner ranch
on the morning of the 22nd, then returned to Dallas.
Bill C

Gary,
My comment earlier about Dan Rather being at the Carousel Club was sarcasm. I don’t know where he was.
Jeff Rollins

>Gary,
>My comment earlier about Dan Rather being at the Carousel
>Club was sarcasm. I don’t know where he was.
>Jeff Rollins

Jeff,

Kind of thought so. Mine was intended to be funny and not serious.

Why are we even talking about Dan Rather. You'd think he was suspected of being the grassy knoll shooter.

Gary
Rather's lack of credibility on November 22nd, 1963
is quite evident, in my opinion. If he didn't tell the
truth about where he was in Dealey Plaza at the time of the
shooting, how can we believe anything he said or did on
that day? He's an example of yet another media person
who fudged the truth about the JFK assassination. His
CBS assassination documentaries over the years have reflected a
strong bias against a conspiracy, and I have to
go back to his dishonesty on November 22nd to put his
CBS JFK documentaries in proper perspective.
Bill C

Bill,

Didn't Rather strongly suggest that Oswald gave Ruby a look of recognition just before getting shot?

Sean

Sean
I believe Rather stated somewhere that Oswald
asked for Attorney Abt. I think it was Robert Groden
who suggested that Oswald gave Ruby a look of
recognition. Now, Sean, this is all from memory, and
I would have to find the actual sources for the Rather
statement regarding Abt, and the Groden suggestion.
Bill

I must confess I'm working from memory here myself, Bill, so it's far from gospel. But I seem to recall footage from 11/24/63 in which Rather pointedly raises the spectre of conspiracy in the Oswald murder. Will get back to you if I can trace that footage.

Cheers

Sean

Here's what Dan Rather said on air on CBS on the afternoon of 11/24:

"Now we will show you the film of Oswald being shot, still-framed. Watch the hat in the right-hand corner of the frame. Watch Oswald's eyes as they seem to catch the eye of the assassin. His head turns, he looks at the assassin and his eyes never leave him. The assassin moves in ... and a few inches from {Oswald's} abdomen, fires a shot."

(see http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/30th_Issue/lho_ruby.html)

Whatever about Rather's whereabouts during the JFK assassination, or his dreadful misrepresentation of the Zapruder film, the above words do not IMO indicate an anti-conspiracy bias as of 11/24/63.

Sean

"Now we will show you the film of Oswald being shot, still-framed. Watch the hat in the right-hand corner of the frame. Watch Oswald's eyes as they seem to catch the eye of the assassin. His head turns, he looks at the assassin and his eyes never leave him. The assassin moves in ... and a few inches from {Oswald's} abdomen, fires a shot."


He never suggests, however, that LHO recognized him, as some suspect. If you watch the film of the shooting with sound, there were reporters shouting questions. LHO seemed to look in that direction when one asked "do you have anything to say in your defense?". He may have seen Ruby coming, but he didn't react to seeing the gun in his hand.

George Phenix, the man who shot the film of Ruby killing Oswald:

"In the frame right before that, Dan Rather thought he saw Oswald recognize Ruby, setting in motion the conspiracy theories."

http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/?ArID=90111

"LHO seemed to look in that direction when one asked "do you have anything to say in your defense?".

The reporter with the microphone who asked that question was just past Ruby. He pushed his microphone over to Oswald to get his response (against the rules), and it was only natural that Oswald looked towards the reporter stepping towards him.

Of course Dan Rather would "sensationalize" Oswald's looking to his left towards Ruby. Sensationalism has always been Rather's motive. (IMO)

For what it's worth, here's what Rather had to say in 1967:

"I'm contented with the basic finding of the Warren Commission, that the evidence is overwhelming that Oswald fired at the President, and that Oswald probably killed President Kennedy alone. I am not content with the findings on Oswald's possible connections with government agencies, particularly with the CIA. I'm not totally convinced that at some earlier time, unconnected with the assassination, that Oswald may have had more connections than we've been told about, or that have been shown. I'm not totally convinced about the single-bullet theory. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary to the final conclusion of the Warren Commission Report. I would have liked more questioning, a more thorough going into Marina Oswald's background. But as to the basic conclusion, I agree."

The Warren Report: Part 3, CBS Television (27th June, 1967)

Sean,

So like many people, Dan missed the point that the SBT IS absolutely necessary to the final conclusions of the WR and therefore if one is not convinced about the SBT one is not convinced by the WR whether one wants to admit it or not.

Of course this is typical of what we've come to know as Government policy and media support ever since. The insanity of excepting mutually exclusive "facts" as all being true is covered by denial and selective "blindness." "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

:-(

Bob Druwing

Sean,

Thanks for your continuing interest in the enigma that is Dan Rather. And a belated thanks to you, Jeff Rollins and Bill Cheslock for your positive comments a few weeks ago.

My aim in this thread is to point out the need to scrutinize and question anything Rather has ever said about the assassination. Especially what he reported over that four-day weekend back in November of 1963.

I’ve already shown how Rather was really at the Trade Mart following the assassination of President Kennedy. This is not part of the story that he’s been telling at least since 1977. There are other assassination-related tales of his that conflict dramatically with the memories of others. One of these relates to his viewing and reporting of the Zapruder film on live TV – The CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite – a few days after the shooting. THIS WILL BE NEW TO MANY OF YOU.

The OLD report is well known. Rather described Kennedy’s head as moving violently FORWARD when, in reality, it moved violently BACKWARD. Much criticism has been leveled at Rather for this mistake. In his book “The Camera Never Blinks,” Rather would later try to explain how it had happened. He said:

“At the risk of sounding too defensive, I challenge anyone to watch for the first time a twenty-two second film of devastating impact, run several blocks, then describe what they had seen in its entirety, without notes.”

He was talking about viewing the film at a law office, then running to CBS Dallas affiliate KRLD-TV and going on the air, “within seconds” as he would say, after walking into the studio. It was “one of the chores of that day I remember most.” He later indicated that he had seen the Zapruder film just “one time” that weekend.

So. . . One time. No notes. And he was on the air within seconds of arriving in the studio after seeing the film. This, Rather says, was how he came to mistakenly describe Kennedy’s violently backward moving head as moving “violently forward.”

But don’t forget what Rather told Eddie Barker. “I should tell you. We don’t always remember things the same way.”

KRLD reporter Bob Huffaker remembered the same Zapruder film viewing and reporting differently. His version can be found in the 2003 book “When the News Went Live” which he co-wrote with fellow KRLD employees Wes Wise, George Phenix and Bill Mercer. Here’s what Huffaker said. And he was there. With Rather. At KRLD.

“We were not allowed to show the film, so each of the three networks could only describe what it revealed. Dan brought a 16 mm print of the film to our newsroom a few days after the assassination, and he and I took it into the projection room. Dan had to view it and feed a report about it to Walter Cronkite’s evening news. I ran the soundless film over and over again for the better part of an hour while Dan took notes. . . As I ran the now-famous film time after time, Dan and I talked about what it’s fuzzy sequence revealed. . . Dan went to a typewriter, then into our television studio, where he reported our conclusions for CBS. Like the rest of us, he read directly from the copy he wrote. . .”

According to Rather, in HIS book, he saw the film one time in a private room at Zapruder’s attorney’s office, took no notes, then ran back to KRLD where he was on the air within seconds.

According to Huffaker, in HIS book, Rather showed up at KRLD with a print of the film, watched it as it was run over and over again by Huffaker for the better part of an hour, took notes, then read his report on CBS from a copy he typed up based upon his notes.

The Rather/Huffaker Zapruder film viewing and reporting stories are not examples of two reporters seeing things a little differently. They are two completely different stories in all respects. Sort of like Rather’s own two versions of where he was and what he did at the time of the assassination.

The only thing more shocking than Huffaker's story is that Rather wrote the Foreword to Huffaker’s book. And this is what Rather said:

“People often ask me ‘what it was really like’ to be in Dallas on the day Kennedy was shot. . . ‘When the News Went Live’ provides an eloquent answer to that tough question, as four newsmen who were there, on the ground, tell how it ‘really was’ through their eyes and ears.”

Ken

Ken,
I don’t know anyone who saw the Zapruder film for the first time and was not shocked by the back head snap. I saw the film for the first time on TV in 1975 (not the Geraldo viewing). All I could think about was, “ Why did the president’s head snap backwards if the bullet came from the back?”.

Even without notes, this would have to stand out in Rather’s mind. The fact that Huffacker is claiming that Rather actually studied the film and made notes only discredits Dan Rather more. I appreciate your posting this.

BTW, when is the last time Dan Rather was questioned about his location during the shooting and the conflicting Trade Mart story?

Jeff Rollins

Jeff,

To my knowledge, Rather has never publicly discussed his two versions of where he was and what he did at the time of the assassination, nor has he ever admitted to being at the Trade Mart. I also don't believe he has ever addressed the startling discrepancies between his Zapruder film story and Bob Huffaker's, including how he came up with his own copy of the film.

Ken

BTW, when is the last time Dan Rather was questioned about his location during the shooting and the conflicting Trade Mart story?


I remember Oliver Stone asking Rather where he was, Jeff.
It was on one of those CBS biased documentaries the network
and Rather offered in the 1990's. By the way, there was no
response from Rather after Stone asked him where he was.
Bill C

Ken,

Thanks for this thread and your research. Not enough has been done to expose the role of the media is this and other American travesties.

Rather and Cronkite have always been treated like heroes as they played their roles in the cover-ups.

Does anyone know where Rather was while the fake documents (with TRUE information) for which he fell on his sword were being manufactured, all to help torpedo Kerry?

:-(

Bob Druwing

Ken & Bob,
Naturally this is Rather’s word against Huffaker and I know little about Huffaker. Still, Dan Rather’s history of changing his facts tends to make you want to go with Huffaker’s story over Dan’s.

It’s sort of sad to see how Rather has ruined his own reputation to the point that I tend to take someone’s word that I know little about over a national news anchor. The assassination stands as a turning point in broadcast journalism, yet for Rather it marks the beginning of misstating facts. Makes you wonder how he kept his job for so long.

Jeff Rollins

Jeff,

When an associate or an employee lies to you and you become aware of it, you dismiss that person as being untrustworthy.

The same has to be the case with Rather (he kept his job because he said what was wanted by CBS).

The same should be the case with the Warren Report as a whole.

Of course, the same should be said about the entire George W. Bush administration, for which one would be hard pressed to find an example of an honest word ever coming from anyone, however the bar has been set so low and the American people have become so numb to the criminality of their public officials, that no matter how blatant the lies, they're just dismissed as a slip of the tongue or a dashed off uninformed opinion.

Needless to say with the introduction of Fox, opinion, which can be ANYTHING is the new standard.

"It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you're sincere."
- Linus Van Pelt

"It doesn't matter what you say you believe, as long as it serves the
right wing of the Republican Party." - Bill O'Reilly

:-(

Bob Druwing

Bob:

Lying and deceit are not exclusive to the Republican party. There's been plenty of that going in both parties. The bar was lowered long ago. It starts when idiots stay in their enclaves and do not question the government or take action. Accepting things at face value. Kind of like LNers.

As far as Rather is concerned, maybe someone should ask him. then he can storm off the set and we can all watch the US Open!

Regards,
Rich

>Bob:
>
>Lying and deceit are not exclusive to the Republican party.
>There's been plenty of that going in both parties. The bar
>was lowered long ago. It starts when idiots stay in their
>enclaves and do not question the government or take action.
>Accepting things at face value. Kind of like LNers.
>
>As far as Rather is concerned, maybe someone should ask him.
>then he can storm off the set and we can all watch the US
>Open!
>
>Regards,
>Rich

Unfortunately DECEIT is not exclusive to any party, institution,
associations, religion, media outlet, enclaves, or just people in general. It seems to be more prevelant in politics, not government necessarily, but most likely because it is the most scutinized of our institutions, and yes politics is and institution, especially in
the past 3 decades since the Watergate debacle and the rise of
24/7 cable news and views.

>Bob:
>
> Accepting things at face value. Kind of like LNers.
>
>
>Regards,
>Rich

Rich,

You might not want to limit this to just LN. I have seen some
CT who will accept another CT theory at face value without question,
even when it becomes apparent that it may not be viable.

Rich,

Right you are. Government corruption is as old as government. And the Democrats are cut from the same cloth as the Republicans and they serve the public as poorly, yatta, yatta, yatta...

But when was the last time you heard Bill O'Reilly spread propaganda that would curry one iota of favor for a Democrat?

:)

Fore!
Bob Druwing
Teed Off

"But when was the last time you heard Bill O'Reilly spread propaganda that would curry one iota of favor for a Democrat?"

Bob
We certainly won't hear it from ANY of the FOX
"Noise" network employees. In fact, according to MSNBC,
FOX neglected, very conveniently, to identify
the party affiliate of recently disgraced Senator Craig of Ohio.
Of course, Craig is a Republican, but we wouldn't have
known it if it was up to FOX. The network failed to
identify him as a Republican. However, should we be
surprised at this? Journalism, in general, has become nothing
more than an arm of the White House and the powers that be.
Just my opinion.
Bill C

Bill C,

Would that it were just your opinion, my friend.

We have a free press like we have free sports. Anybody can write and anybody can play baseball, but if you wish to do either professionally, you will be on a team controlled by its owners and you will "play ball" or not at their discretion. You can suit up, but will they put you in the show? If they put you in, will the coach insist on the sacrifice fly or let you hit away?

Recall Watergate. That story and the toppling of the Nixon administration ultimately came about due to the decisions of Ben Bradlee.

The parallels to Watergate in today's situation are myriad, of course, such as Gonzales playing the role of Mitchell...

but IMO the key DIFFERENCE is that the things they readily admit to in the White House today, they'd be struggling to keep secret in the Watergate days.

WHY? I believe it's because they are convinced they can get away with what they should be INDICTED for and HELD RESPONSIBLE for.

Libby is one immediate example.

Gonzales is another. Mitchell went to prison. Gonzales perjured himself before Congress and has been allowed to retire without consequences.

Where is the follow up on the contempt of Congress by Harriet Miers and Joshua Bolten?

We shall see. What is significant is that there is no clamor in the press, so the public is overlooking the issue.

I think these thugs have the bases covered.

Of course, in the end, so did Nixon.

You can bet your bottom dollar Cheney has figured every angle and Bush is confident he'll be taken care of. It's beyond his experience to imagine anything else.

:-(

Bob Druwing

While we’re on this truth & honesty kick, I guess I should be fair to Rather and forward part of an e-mail sent to me by Gary Mack. This concerns Rather’s viewing of the z-film.

Gary said, “I think the real story is this: Rather saw Zapruder's sole remaining 8mm print (one of the three made by Jamieson on Friday) on Monday afternoon. That's when he went on CBS with his erroneous description. Later, within a few days, Rather acquired a 16mm print of the film and THAT is what Huffaker projected.

I've known Huffaker for years and he has no specific memory of the date he showed the film to Rather. And I have heard from some of the local news people that a few newsrooms had a 16mm print - black & white, apparently - not too long after that weekend.

Gary Mack” (end quote)

Thank you,
Jeff Rollins

Jeff,

What's Gary's take on the fake "copies" of the Bush documents?

:7

Bob Druwing

Come to think of it… between the Dealey Plaza story, his account of the z-film and the fake Bush documents, Dan Rather’s record for reporting events in the state of Texas is pretty poor.
Jeff Rollins

Jeff,

Yeah... and what's that old saying?

If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, flies like a duck and lies like a thief, then it's probably a lying S.O.B. and not to be trusted!!

x(

Bob Druwing

>>While we’re on this truth & honesty kick, I guess I should be fair to Rather and forward part of an e-mail sent to me by Gary Mack. This concerns Rather’s viewing of the z-film.

Gary said, “I think the real story is this: Rather saw Zapruder's sole remaining 8mm print (one of the three made by Jamieson on Friday) on Monday afternoon. That's when he went on CBS with his erroneous description. Later, within a few days, Rather acquired a 16mm print of the film and THAT is what Huffaker projected.

I've known Huffaker for years and he has no specific memory of the date he showed the film to Rather. And I have heard from some of the local news people that a few newsrooms had a 16mm print - black & white, apparently - not too long after that weekend.

Gary Mack” (end quote)

Thank you,
Jeff Rollins<<


Jeff,

Everyone please note, Gary Mack said, “I THINK the real story is this. . . (emphasis mine).”

We all have the right to our own opinion. That’s what Gary Mack has offered us here. Nothing more, nothing less. What troubles me is that Gary has apparently done no meaningful research into this before stating what he THINKS. All he basically tells us is that Bob Huffaker doesn’t know which day Dan Rather’s repeated Zapruder film showing took place. This is really no surprise since Bob does not commit to a day or date in his book but says simply that the showing was a few days after the assassination.

Gary then tacks on that he’s known Bob for years, as if that was somehow relevant to what Gary THINKS. For the record, I know Bob Huffaker, too. I interviewed him for two hours back in 2001, and I spoke with him again last week after reading your post about what Gary THINKS. Bob told me that Gary has not been in touch with him recently.

So Gary Mack has come up with a resolution to Dan Rather’s Zapruder film problem, apparently without doing any meaningful research and most definitely without contacting Bob Huffaker. Gary probably would not have gone public with his theory if he had just paid more attention to something else that Bob said which is crucial to the timing of Rather’s Zapruder film viewing and subsequent CBS report. Before I go over that, let me tell you a little bit about Bob.

If there’s anyone nicer or kinder than Bob Huffaker, I don’t know who that person is. Bob is extremely helpful and generous in the giving of his time. He reported all over the map for KRLD that four-day weekend: the motorcade right before it entered Dealey Plaza; Parkland Hospital; and the murder of Oswald, to name just a few. And, of course, the multiple Zapruder film showings for Dan Rather. He has a wealth of knowledge about all of them and is a tremendous resource. Bob will tell you when he’s not sure about certain things. He's an honest man. He strives for accuracy and truth. And he maintained to me that his recollection is still that the Rather/Zapruder film event took place “a few days after the assassination.” However, if and when a second edition of his book is published, he will likely change it to “not long after the assassination.”

Too bad Gary Mack overlooked Bob’s most important recollection of all:

**Rather’s multiple Zapruder film viewings took place on the same day that Rather reported his findings on the CBS News.**

Bob told me last week, confirming once again, that the purpose for viewing the film was so Rather could file a report on Cronkite’s CBS Evening News broadcast that very same night. Bob has not backed off of this. And that broadcast was on Monday 11/25/63, the day that Rather supposedly saw the film one time, took no notes, and said that Kennedy’s head moved violently forward but said nothing about it moving violently backward. Bob is very detailed about everything in his book: the multiple film showings for the good part of an hour; the notes taken by Rather; the copy he typed from his notes; and then the broadcast that evening on CBS from his typed copy.

The only possible explanation, other than a SINGLE Zapruder film report by Rather on 11/25/63, is a SECOND Zapruder film report by Rather a short time after 11/25/63. I don’t believe there was such a report. I could be wrong. But if there was a second report, one would think Gary Mack would have mentioned it as support for what he THINKS. It would have ended the Zapruder film discussion instantly. Yet Gary did not mention it but instead passed along his shaky theory to you and, by extension, this Forum. As a result, the Zapruder leg of this thread has since gone dormant. It shouldn’t have.

Gary Mack has been very helpful to me personally for some years now. He’s contacted me about this very thread to discuss issues other than Rather and the Zapruder film. But regarding the Zapruder film, he has chosen not to contact me. Instead, he’s had that discussion with you. So, Jeff, I’m asking you to recontact Gary and ask him if there was a SECOND detailed Rather report for CBS based on a later viewing of the Zapruder film multiple times; when this report was; and what Rather had to say. Again, I don’t believe there was such a report “not long after the assassination.” And, obviously, if there was NO such report, then I stand behind what I’ve been saying. If there WAS such a report, then we will have worked together to eliminate a problem through research instead of just relying on what Gary Mack, or anyone else, decides to THINK about it.

By the way, Jeff, I want to thank you for trying to be fair to Rather. Fairness is why I’m looking for the possibility of a second CBS report.

One final point needs to be made. Bob Huffaker has no beef with Dan Rather. He is not trying to make a statement about Rather’s recurring contradictions. He’s simply reporting the events of that time as he remembers them. I’m the one who has taken what Bob remembers and compared it to the story that Rather has told. It’s led to another apparent contradiction that I’m trying to resolve one way or the other.

I look forward to hearing what Gary Mack has to say about a SECOND Zapruder film report by Dan Rather to CBS within a few days or so of the assassination.

Ken

>Gary
> Rather's lack of credibility on November 22nd, 1963
>is quite evident, in my opinion. If he didn't tell the
>truth about where he was in Dealey Plaza at the time of the
>shooting, how can we believe anything he said or did on
>that day? He's an example of yet another media person
>who fudged the truth about the JFK assassination. His
>CBS assassination documentaries over the years have reflected
>a
>strong bias against a conspiracy, and I have to
>go back to his dishonesty on November 22nd to put his
>CBS JFK documentaries in proper perspective.
>Bill C
>
Bill,

I guess I just can't see why it matters where Dan was on 11/22/63 or
what he said. Your right he is just another major media hack that
has no idea what happened on 11/22/63 and just goes along with the
flow on the lone assassin theory. I have never had any faith
in any of the major media or network documentaries on the assassination. From day one they have backed the lone assassin
theory and have failed miserably in thier duty to the American
people to seek out and report the facts.

As with some, and not just in the LN crowd, Rather tried to help
build his career with his take on the assassination.

>Bill,

>I guess I just can't see why it matters where Dan was on 11/22/63 or
>what he said. Your right he is just another major media hack that
>has no idea what happened on 11/22/63 and just goes along with the
>flow on the lone assassin theory. I have never had any faith
>in any of the major media or network documentaries on the >assassination. From day one they have backed the lone assassin
>theory and have failed miserably in thier duty to the American
>people to seek out and report the facts.
>
>As with some, and not just in the LN crowd, Rather tried to help
>build his career with his take on the assassination.
>

Gary,

Where Dan Rather really was that day at 12:30 p.m. may matter a lot. I'll be posting more on this sometime tonight.

Ken

IMO it does mater where Dan Rather was the day of the assassination. Journalists regularly site the Constitution as thought freedom of press trumps everyone else constitutional rights. Rather later became anchor at CBS. This is a powerful position in terms of information and swaying public opinion.

Trust is something that is earned and Dan Rather has now broken that trust on at least a couple of occasions. The media needs to be held accountable in the same way they claim to hold others accountable.

Kenneth needs to tell us the frequency.

Jeff Rollins

In 1977 Dan Rather made it clear where he was at 12:30 p.m.(CST) on 11/22/63, the day President Kennedy was assassinated. He was “a few yards away” from “the other side” (the west side) of the triple underpass in Dallas. Those were his words in his book, “The Camera Never Blinks.”

He then illustrated this with a map the following year in an article he wrote for the magazine “Scholastic Voice.” The map confirmed that he was right next to the west side of the triple underpass.

From that position he climbed up and over the underpass, then RAN back to KRLD, the CBS affiliate where he had been coordinating network coverage of the President’s visit to Texas.

But there was a major problem with this 1977 story.

Rather wasn’t where he said he was.

The 1977 story is contradicted by photographs taken of the west side of the triple underpass on that day at that very same time. There is no sign of Dan Rather.

And, incredible as it might seem, it’s also contradicted by another 12:30 p.m., 11/22/63 version Rather told back on 3/27/64, thirteen years earlier, just four months after the assassination.

According to Rather’s taped interview in the 1967 book “The President is Dead” by John B. Mayo, Jr., Rather was “stationed alongside the expressway leading to the Trade Mart.” He was waiting there for “the CBS production crew” to toss him several reels of film as they passed by. He had “a cab waiting” to rush the film to KRLD. After the President’s limo sped past, Rather said, “I jumped into my cab and went straight to the KRLD studios.” This wasn’t just a story. It was history. As CBS President Frank Stanton said in the book’s introduction, “Future historians as well as contemporary students of political affairs and communications will find much of value in this work.”

But then Rather changed his story, and history, in 1977.

Here are the two stories, in a nutshell:

1964: Next to the expressway. 1977: Next to the triple underpass.

1964: Drove to KRLD in a cab. 1977: Ran all the way to KRLD.

How could this be? How could a man so deeply involved in the aftermath of the assassination tell two different stories? The photographic record shows that he wasn’t where he said he was in his 1977 story. Where was he at 12:30 p.m. on 11/22/63 according to his original 1964 version found in Mayo's book?

The expressway, of course, is the Stemmons Freeway. Rather said he was stationed alongside of it “leading to the Trade Mart.” And the Trade Mart, the motorcade’s last stop, is so close to the Stemmons Freeway that the Stemmons Freeway is part of its address. Was Dan Rather really just outside of the Trade Mart, waiting for the arrival of the motorcade?

In “The Press Corps and the Kennedy Assassination” published back in 1969, journalist and college professor Darwin Payne said:

"While the press buses sped toward the Trade Mart, ostensibly following the President's car, some members of the news media already awaited the motorcade's arrival there. This group, consisting of some four or five newsmen, had arrived at about 12 noon.”

Payne then recounted how one newsman persuaded a policeman to carry him to the hospital in an unmarked car after the motorcade sailed by.

Payne goes on to say:

“Another television newsman at the Trade Mart, Dan Rather of CBS-TV, reacted differently. Upon seeing the passing motorcade, he rushed in his waiting taxi-cab to the downtown office of KRLD-TV, the Dallas CBS affiliate station."

So there is support, by Darwin Payne, for Rather being at the Trade Mart at 12:30 p.m. on 11/22/63. He says outright that Rather was there. And a cab would definitely be needed at the Trade Mart which was several miles away from KRLD. It wouldn’t make sense to have a cab on the outskirts of Dealey Plaza where one would be close enough to KRLD to return on foot.

I was curious to see if Payne’s placement of Rather at the Trade Mart was based on his interpretation of Rather’s 1964 story as found in Mayo’s book, or if Payne had obtained this information from another source. So I contacted Payne and asked him. Unfortunately he couldn’t remember his source. And after searching for me, he was unable to locate his notes. Was there any other support for Rather being at the Trade Mart?

The answer is yes. “Crisis in Dallas” by Richard Van Der Karr was really a Masters Thesis based on Dallas network affiliate staff interviews conducted by Van Der Karr in Dallas from 3/23/64 to 3/28/64. He interviewed KRLD News Director Eddie Barker on 3/27/64. This is what Barker said according to Van Der Karr:

“When the official announcement (of the President’s death) was made I went to Parkland. . . Before I left the Mart, though, CBS correspondent Dan Rather came to me, and we agreed to work together and share our coverage material.”

Furthermore, Van Der Karr went on to say that Rather also contacted KRLD’s Chief Engineer, William Honeycutt, who had been at the Trade Mart with Barker. Rather asked that the KRLD remote truck in use at the Trade Mart be sent to Parkland Hospital. This was done.

So Rather really was at the Trade Mart, at least around 1:30 p.m., making arrangements to have the KRLD remote truck at the Trade Mart sent to Parkland Hospital. . . and agreeing with Barker to work together and share coverage material. But his 1977 version of where he was doesn't allow for the Trade Mart. He supposedly ran straight from the triple underpass to KRLD.

Why would Rather come up with a different story thirteen years later? Why would he want to eliminate his presence at the Trade Mart?

I'm reminded again of what Rather told Barker when "The Camera Never Blinks" was published: "I should tell you, we don't always remember things the same way."

Ken

Ken, this is fantastic research.
While this subject may not offer a lot as to who killed John Kennedy & why, I believe it is relevant because the assassination is marked as a major turning point in American broadcast journalism.
Great work, Jeff

Excellent research, Ken. You've placed Dan Rather in
an area, the Trade Mart, that would not have helped his
career rocket to stardom the way it did. He had to lie
about it and place himself where the action was, Dealey Plaza.

From the start, CBS had Dan Rather as its official
voice of JFK assassination docmentaries. One can only
question his credibility on these documentaries when we
know he wasn't truthful about his actions on the day of
the assassination. The first, or one of
the first documentaries
CBS TV aired was "The Warren Report," in June of 1967. It was
a four part series, each part lasting one hour. I have the
book of the series, and it reads like Rather's conflicting
explanations as to where he was on November 22nd.

Rather was teamed with Walter Cronkite for the series.
It was Rather who claimed the JFK back and to the left
movement was caused by Jackie Kennedy pushing him. Monty
Evans explains in his manuscript (p. 76) that Rather got
it wrong, as JFK fell to his left towards Jackie. She would've
had to have PULLED him, not pushed. This is an example of
the sloppy reporting Rather has provided over the years with
respect to the assassination. Evans goes on to argue that
after watching the Zapruder film, there is no evidence of
Mrs. Kennedy pulling or pushing the President.

This is just one example of how Rather has misled millions
of Americans about the facts of the assassination. Using
the air waves of CBS only made it easier for him to spread
his misinformation.

Walter Cronkite got his punches in against Oswald. In the
documentary, Cronkite agreed that the shooting ability given
to Oswald by the official version of the assassination is
difficult to accept. However, Cronkite declared,
and I quote from the book,

"So, clearly, there is no pat answer to the question of how
fast Oswald's rifle could be fired. In the first place we did
not test his own rifle. It seemed reasonable to say that an
expert could fire that rifle in five seconds. It seemed equally
reasonable to say that Oswald, (my emphasis) UNDER NORMAL
CIRCUMSTANCES, WOULD TAKE LONGER. BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE
NOT NORMAL. HE WAS SHOOTING AT A PRESIDENT. SO OUR ANSWER IS;
PROBABLY FAST ENOUGH." ( "Should We Now Believe The Warren
Report" by Stephen White, page 225.)

Yes, and I can't play the piano, but if I was put in
Carnegie Hall in front of throngs of people, according to
Cronkite's thinking, I could play it like Liberace.
What nonsense !! No thanks to Rather and Cronkite and other
CBS TV documentaries that followed, polls show an overwhelming
amount of Americans don't buy the lone assassin theory.

Bill C

Excellent research, Ken. You've placed Dan Rather in
an area, the Trade Mart, that would not have helped his
career rocket to stardom the way it did. He had to lie
about it and place himself where the action was, Dealey Plaza.

From the start, CBS had Dan Rather as its official
voice of JFK assassination docmentaries. One can only
question his credibility on these documentaries when we
know he wasn't truthful about his actions on the day of
the assassination. The first, or one of
the first documentaries
CBS TV aired was "The Warren Report," in June of 1967. It was
a four part series, each part lasting one hour. I have the
book of the series, and it reads like Rather's conflicting
explanations as to where he was on November 22nd.

Rather was teamed with Walter Cronkite for the series.
It was Rather who claimed the JFK back and to the left
movement was caused by Jackie Kennedy pushing him. Monty
Evans explains in his manuscript (p. 76) that Rather got
it wrong, as JFK fell to his left towards Jackie. She would've
had to have PULLED him, not pushed. This is an example of
the sloppy reporting Rather has provided over the years with
respect to the assassination. Evans goes on to argue that
after watching the Zapruder film, there is no evidence of
Mrs. Kennedy pulling or pushing the President.

This is just one example of how Rather has misled millions
of Americans about the facts of the assassination. Using
the air waves of CBS only made it easier for him to spread
his misinformation.

Walter Cronkite got his punches in against Oswald. In the
documentary, Cronkite agreed that the shooting ability given
to Oswald by the official version of the assassination is
difficult to accept. However, Cronkite declared,
and I quote from the book,

"So, clearly, there is no pat answer to the question of how
fast Oswald's rifle could be fired. In the first place we did
not test his own rifle. It seemed reasonable to say that an
expert could fire that rifle in five seconds. It seemed equally
reasonable to say that Oswald, (my emphasis) UNDER NORMAL
CIRCUMSTANCES, WOULD TAKE LONGER. BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE
NOT NORMAL. HE WAS SHOOTING AT A PRESIDENT. SO OUR ANSWER IS;
PROBABLY FAST ENOUGH." ( "Should We Now Believe The Warren
Report" by Stephen White, page 225.)

Yes, and I can't play the piano, but if I was put in
Carnegie Hall in front of throngs of people, according to
Cronkite's thinking, I could play it like Liberace.
What nonsense !! No thanks to Rather and Cronkite and other
CBS TV documentaries that followed, polls show an overwhelming
amount of Americans don't buy the lone assassin theory.

Bill C

Ken,

Fair cop, guv.

Sean

Ken,

It's mid-afternoon on the left coast, Ken. "Tonight" was last night.

I'm not known here at JFK Lancer for my patience, good buddy; I'm chompin' at the bit.

Please enlighten us at last with what you have journeyed so far and wide to uncover.

I'm sure it's the key to the case and more.

:o
Come o-onn!!
Bob Druwing
The Padded Room

Ken,

Yes, I pulled it from memory, based on Trask's statements.

I have never been able to identify him, and cannot say with absolute certainty that is where he was. (I wasn't there, I was in Denver. Can't prove it, but that is the story I am sticking to.)

I also seem to recall that Eddie Barker, who ran the CBS Newsroom here in Dallas (later a Mayor), also said in an interview that Rather was waiting for film. (But again, that is from memory.) Barker did have a few disagreement with Dan Rather, about going on the air and announcing that Dallas schoolchildren were cheering the fact that Kennedy was killed. He also threw out many of the national CBS people from the local studio that weekend, at one point.

Won't be the first time I have been wrong, certainly not the last either.

Have you found a better source of information? You have stated that I am "not correct", so I am assuming you have some other specific location in mind, and evidence? (Presumably part of your "further detail"?)

"Rather's most recent version of where he was places him without question right next to the west side of the triple underpass."

(The entire West side of the Triple Underpass, IS the Dealey Annex. The East side is Dealey Plaza.)

Always willing to re-evaluate my beliefs, as new evidence comes up.

Rather seems to have conflicting stories as to where he was during 5.6 seconds of history every other American remembers vividly. For my grandparents it was Pearl Harbor, for my parents it was JFK, for my generation it will be 9/11.

The most quoted claim I have heard of Rather’s was from his book ‘The Camera Never Blinks’ he claimed he was on or near the underpass.

To throw another bomb Robert McNeil has claimed he confronted and spoke to Oswald as he left the Book Depository. I found this statement nowhere in the Warren Report.

A few years ago on ‘Hannity and Colmes’ changed his story and claimed after the shooting he rushed the grassy knoll.

Dollanganger,

There supposedly were 2 members of the Press that might have spoken to Oswald. The other was Pierce Allman, of the local press. McNiel did phone in his report from the TSBD, according to him.

Both McNiel and Allman have Oral Histories with the Sixth Floor Museum, but Rather does not.

http://www.jfk.org/Oral_Histories/Oral_Histories_List.asp?Letter=a

I do not know if any of the 3 have Warren Commission testimony.

Penn Jones' treatment of Rather's inconsistencies is at:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/05th_Issue/rather.html

the transcript of Larry King Live is at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0206/04/lkl.01.html

(Basically a google of "dan rather" assassination underpass will turn up his location a number of places, including many criticisms of his statments. Including this thread.)

Jerry,

Thanks for the 2002 Larry King/Dan Rather interview transcript which has Rather saying that he was "at the railroad tracks." This further substantiates where Rather said he was (in his 1977 version) as well as invalidates what Trask has been saying, i.e. that Rather was at the Stemmons Freeway onramp. It Trask's claim was true, then the Daniels film and McIntire photo would be meaningless. Because it's not true, then Daniels and McIntire are extremely important, showing Rather nowhere in sight.

Ken

>>the transcript of Larry King Live is at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0206/04/lkl.01.html<;<

Here's the relevant section of the transcript:

KING: The Kennedy assassination you were reporting for a Dallas station, right?

RATHER: No, it was with CBS News. KING: What was your assignment that day?

RATHER: My assignment that day -- I had set up the CBS News coverage for President Kennedy's trip to Texas.

KING: Because you are a Texan.

RATHER: And my assignment was to supervise and run our coverage in Dallas for the president's visit.

KING: Where were you when he was shot?

RATHER: I was past the railroad tracks, at the railroad tracks above the so-called grassy knoll at the time he was shot. Down -- the motorcade was supposed to pass a place to the other side of -- for those who know the area -- an underpass. And I did not see the shooting, but I knew something was wrong when the president's limousine went in a direction I didn't think it was supposed to be going. And Mrs. Kennedy -- I thought I saw her, but I wasn't sure. I just sensed something was wrong when I saw them high-tailing on back. But that's where I was the day Kennedy was shot.

"To throw another bomb Robert McNeil has claimed he confronted and spoke to Oswald as he left the Book Depository. I found this statement nowhere in the Warren Report.

A few years ago on ‘Hannity and Colmes’ changed his story and claimed after the shooting he rushed the grassy knoll."


NBC reporter Robert McNeil did indeed head to the knoll, and is pictured near the north end of the RR overpass.

I don't recall which, but one of these guys looking over the concrete barrier is Bob McNeil:

>I don't recall which, but one of these guys looking over the
>concrete barrier is Bob McNeil:
>
>
>
>

Bob McNeil is the 4th from the left. He's in a greyish suit and looking back toward the camera. You can't make him out very well in this attachment, but there's a very clear blowup on a Documentary I have (I believe it's called "Beyond Conspiracy") where you can see him much better.

He also stated he heard 3 shots and ran to the knoll, then afterwards he ran to the TSBD to find a phone. It was there where he is believed to have spoke to LHO.

Jeremy

Bob McNeil

Ken,

Great topic, since no mainstream newsperson in America has had the guts
to tell a truth unsanctioned by the government since the death of Lisa Howard.

I've also read the claim that Rather told the American people he saw the Zapruder film before it was squirreled away and that it clearly showed JFK turning to face the sniper's nest at the moment he received the throat shot. This has been attributed to others as well.

"Holy mackerel, Mae, stop the presses; I seem to have left my smoke damage in my other soot!"

Rather was probably busy signing his new membership card for the insiders' club.

:-(

Bob Druwing

Bob,

Some recently revealed but publicly undiscussed information will be discussed later on this forum with respect to Rather's viewing of the Zapruder film.

Ken